Curse

dsnesnintendo · Sep 28, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

I can see 1 fatal flaw with this system

Me: Wts Miniature Gwen 100k and xxe(dont know price but needed highend example)

Douche Bag #1: (public chat) ZOMFG IL TRADENS YOU A REK 11 ICY SWORD FO$ DATS!!!!!

Me: nty plz use wisper next time

Douche Bag #1 : WTF YOU NOOB MIN E WRTH MOR NOOBET

i deside to ingore him

5 seconds later

Douche Bag #2: (wisper) dude leave my friend alone his dad works at anet

Me: i wasn't doing anything he was being very rude

Douche Bag#2: YOU NoobS Rewin the gamz ****** *** ***** *** **** **** ** ** sourcroute ***** /report

later the Douche Bags(guild name DBaG(joke name btw) all decide to all report me at the same time

Andrew Patrick · Sep 28, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducktape

Thanks Andrew, I think a lot of people would feel less worried to hear something like "Don't worry, this isn't fourth grade, people will get banned for offenses that are blatant rule-breaking or obviously offensive behavior" if you are able to offer any more reassurances

Here ya go.

Quote:

You may use the Guild Wars Report System within the game to alert the company to in-game issues such as inappropriate behavior, offensive names, the perceived use of a "bot", or other misconduct, as specified in the Dishonorable Conduct System. You may not use the Guild Wars Report System to inflict harm upon or harass another player, to submit false reports, or to cause undue load on our servers. Individuals who abuse the reporting function will be investigated and will face possible account suspension or account termination.

From the rules of conduct: http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...sofconduct.php

Falsely accusing someone is a serious matter that we will deal with. Much like when the police receive a false report for a crime, it wastes our time, impacts the person you are falsely accusing, and all around isn't a good idea. We will deal with individuals that attempt to use the /report function maliciously, and as I said, we will continue to monitor the system to find any issues.

ducktape · Sep 28, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Andrew is the bestest

Blackest Rose · Sep 29, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Andrew when will dishonor become a title track we can grind on!

I'm kidding - I for one thing it's a good system.
I just hope it's used appropriately.

Kudos to the team for coming up with it - I hope the test proves successful.

SotiCoto · Sep 29, 2007, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Ana Stacia

Go have a child and lose it, and then you maybe won't be so unsympathetic about it.

I've had all sorts of members of my family die... including kin.
Frankly I couldn't care less. Death happens to everyone. I just get bugged when certain people just can't get over it and get on with their lives. If they're going to cry about it continually then the least they could do is keep it private.... and THAT is what it is all about.

Quote:

Yes your necro's name is offensive and I would report it as well should I see it around.

If you're offended by it then that is YOUR doing... not mine. I cannot forcibly offend you by any means, but you can... of your own volition, choose to be offended by anything you so wish. As such... if you're offended by it, that is your weakness and honestly I should not have to compensate for it when it isn't under my control.
Honestly... if I genuinely wanted to rub someone up the wrong way, I could do far worse. I do not on principle. Please consider things in context.

Quote:

If your that socially inept maybe you shouldn't be playing a social game to begin with.

I don't play Guild Wars for the social interaction... but because I just like the game for its own sake... and I'd much rather other people didn't interfere in that where possible.

Quote:

Btw you don't lose the charactor they make you change the name!

Some small relief.... but given that the name has become traditional for me now (I've had it many years), I'd rather it didn't come to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

LOL.

You have some growing up to do. Creating a name to be offensive then crying on a forum that someone might find it offensive and report you for it ... that is rich. Not trying to start a flame fest but seriously have you thought about what you are complaining about?

What?
You're on their side?
Go figure.
I'm not "crying" about it. "Crying" is precisely what I'm trying to stop WITH it... and right now I'm merely being wary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fried Tech

Ya...... SotiCoto.

Just to let you know.... Cot Death is another name for SIDS.
or Sudden Infant Death Syndrome......
There is no way you came up with that name without knowing what cots death is.... you should change your name.

I know what it is. I even know what it looks like. I've seen it.
Generally it falls between the categories of "sh!t happens" and "bad parenting".... and in either case, while I can understand that there might be a period of initial shock and some time for adjustment.... I've had people making a genuine nuisance of themselves because they couldn't get over it.
And I made the name in the first place as an attempt at desensitising them to it by overexposure until it didn't mean anything to them any more. It worked reasonably well, even if it was a bit harsh... and that is how it came to be.

You see?
It isn't that I'm just trying to p!ss people off; I saw a problem and I decided to fix it my way. The name is a legacy of that. There are some things in life that you won't like, that you might truly hate... but they're just part of life, and getting them removed for you only makes you weaker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

So you admit that you named your character because it offends people. Now you're upset that one of the offended folks might report you?

Wouldn't you if certain individuals happened to find one of your names offensive? I'm sure there is someone out there in the world who has a morbid fear of Ravens... and would find the very mention of your name striking fear into their heart.
Do you honestly think you are doing any good by hiding that from them?
I don't.

Some things offend more people than others.
Irrespective though, it is their choice to be offended... and it won't influence everyone the same way. The blame doesn't fall on the namer... unless under the highly unusual circumstances that it was designed soley as a personal attack against another. Even then, the "other" needn't be offended at all if they apply a little will and effort... and then what power does the attacker have? None at all.

*Sighs*

I really do have a tendency to turn threads against me.... don't I?
Even when I'm not actually insulting anyone.... v_v;

Burst Cancel · Sep 29, 2007, 12:43 AM // 00:43

The main issue here is that /report is wildly subjective. If anyone finds something you said offensive, you are risking action from Anet. Basically, this has the potential to sterilize in-game conversation - the crude joke you just made could have gotten some people's panties in a bunch. Or, the arguments you make could be unpopular (e.g., PvPers pwnz0rz PvEers). Maybe I find blatant stupidity offensive, and decide to report that. Maybe I find people playing cute offensive. On what grounds do you decide whether something is actually offensive or not?

Also, you'll note from bhavv's thread about random arena reporting that there is a fundamental flaw in the system - it doesn't allow you to play builds you want to play. There's no requirement that you play to win, right? Playing for fun is just as good, even if that means it costs your team the victory.

I frankly think Anet needs to stop trying to police conduct (even the US government is fairly hands-off about that) and stick to dealing with serious offenses - exploits, botters, etc.

Ms Utena Tenjou · Sep 29, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57

My Opinion.. if you leave it in the hands of people who dont think your good bad thing will happen.. you might want to fix the connection errors and people reporting you for leeching but your actually losing connection.

/report < /cry

leprekan · Sep 29, 2007, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

What?
You're on their side?
Go figure.
I'm not "crying" about it. "Crying" is precisely what I'm trying to stop WITH it... and right now I'm merely being wary.;

Poor taste ... horrible judgement ... violation of Eula? Most likely. There isn't any way to defend the creation of that name. You created it to offend no more no less.

If you note some of my char names on left .. Eula Approved Name ... was the name created after being banned for the name Yuk Foo. Yuk Foo was deemed offensive and resulted in a 24 hour ban and forced name change .. what exactly do you think your name is. Speaking as a person that was banned for a name .. YES you deserve what you get. Anyone defending you is either hiding a name they are worried about or likes to debate.

People play this game to get away from problems not have them thrust in their face by ill mannered children.

Burst Cancel · Sep 29, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

I'm fairly sure this is going to draw flames, but I'm going to stick my neck out because I honestly can't stand it anymore:

Don't you guys ever get tired of being PC?

I get the feeling that some of you people who post on this forum are so deathly afraid that someone, somewhere, is having their feelings hurt, that you have to censor every damn thing that even has a chance of being offensive. "Yuk Foo" forced a name change? Do you honestly consider that to be reasonable?

Hurt feelings is something little kids worry about. If adults can't shrug it off, or else gird their loins and take it, I'm honestly not sure what to think. It's bad enough that you can barely even fart loudly on TV without drawing government fines.

ducktape · Sep 29, 2007, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

People play this game to get away from problems not have them thrust in their face by ill mannered children.

Good point in general, I think that's why people get extra-mad when someone griefs them or scams them or says/does offensive things in the game, they're playing GW to have fun and get away from all that crap that they could easily find offline if they enjoyed putting up with it. They came to play a game and have fun and get away from things that suck for a little while.

EDIT:
There is a big difference between being PC and being a jerk. Jerks can fall into a black hole for all I care, they're intentionally doing stuff to make other people have less fun in this game. Being PC is the ridiculous thing, getting rid of everything that offends everyone in the slightest. Yes, people should learn to deal with certain things and only complain about stuff that goes against basic standards of decency. Unless Yuk Foo is swearing or offensive in another language, I don't see the problem. Raccoon, it's an animal first and foremost, or a really pathetic slang insult used by some people, Raccoon by itself is no problem. Ghost of Cot Death, I didn't know what a Cot Death is, I did know what SIDS is, but say your name is "Dead Baby" or "Dead Kid" or "Dead Dog" seriously do those deserve bans? People may be offended by any of those, but that's stuff an adult (or 14-year-old) should be able to deal with and not cry to the game police over. As far as I'm concerned, if you can say it on a TV show with a TV-14 rating it should be fine in the game, since the game is rated 14+. See anything violating that TV-14 standard of public decency, yeah, report it, they deserve it.

Andrew Patrick · Sep 29, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

A report is just a report...much like reporting someone for a crime to the police. It will be investigated and confirmed before action is taken. If someone maliciously reports someone, they will be the one being punished. If someone is being overly zealous with their reporting, support can decide when something isn't really bad enough to warrant a mark. All a report does is say "hey, look at what this guy was doing!" Unless they were actually doing something wrong, they have nothing to worry about.

Burst Cancel · Sep 29, 2007, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Except in PvP, right? Where reporting has instant effect via the dishonor system?

I just don't see the point. You're basically mashing everyone's subjectivity together and then using a staff member to arbitrarily choose between them. Maybe half the people in town thought a joke was funny, and the other half ragequit the game in protest. How is Anet staff going to decide? If you err on the side of caution, the /report system has no teeth and might as well not be implemented. If you err in favor of PC, you sterilize in-game conversation. Sure, there's a sliding scale, but if you just go with individual subjective judgment you're just going to end up with inconsistencies and unpredictable results based on the moral sensibilities of whoever is dealing with the particular case. In that instance, people get paranoid and clam up, because who knows what Anet will do?

Jessyi · Sep 29, 2007, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Anyone defending you is either hiding a name they are worried about or likes to debate.

So, argumentum ad hominem or arguing for the sake of arguing? I'm going to assume you were aware of the third option and just didn't mention it: maybe someone agrees with him.

If I do something I think is benign and you get offended, then I am even more offended by you getting offended. That may well be the only thing I actually take offense to. I wouldn't have made the name SotiCoto did (largely because I prefer names that are actually names, except in the case of pvp chars) but I defend his right to use it on principle.

-Jessyi

leprekan · Sep 29, 2007, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

So, argumentum ad hominem or arguing for the sake of arguing? I'm going to assume you were aware of the third option and just didn't mention it: maybe someone agrees with him.

If I do something I think is benign and you get offended, then I am even more offended by you getting offended. That may well be the only thing I actually take offense to. I wouldn't have made the name SotiCoto did (largely because I prefer names that are actually names, except in the case of pvp chars) but I defend his right to use it on principle.

-Jessyi

As I said people looking for a debate. Your debating this is rather pointless ... he knew it was not benign and even states that fact in a post. So feel free to debate this with someone else. If you agree his right to offend outweighs anothers right to not be offended not much I can say other than feel free to read the Eula.

He blatantly states "I know what it is. I even know what it looks like. I've seen it. Generally it falls between the categories of "sh!t happens" and "bad parenting".... and in either case, while I can understand that there might be a period of initial shock and some time for adjustment.... I've had people making a genuine nuisance of themselves because they couldn't get over it.
And I made the name in the first place as an attempt at desensitising them to it by overexposure until it didn't mean anything to them any more. It worked reasonably well, even if it was a bit harsh... and that is how it came to be."

I came from real pvp leagues CAL CPL etc. This was a non issue because common sense was not only expected but enforced. Tards that went out of their way to be offensive would .. get banned from the league. You could debate it all you wanted and enjoy your hardware ban at the same time .. it wouldn't change the outcome.

Burst Cancel · Sep 29, 2007, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducktape

EDIT:
There is a big difference between being PC and being a jerk. Jerks can fall into a black hole for all I care, they're intentionally doing stuff to make other people have less fun in this game. Being PC is the ridiculous thing, getting rid of everything that offends everyone in the slightest. Yes, people should learn to deal with certain things and only complain about stuff that goes against basic standards of decency. Unless Yuk Foo is swearing or offensive in another language, I don't see the problem. Raccoon, it's an animal first and foremost, or a really pathetic slang insult used by some people, Raccoon by itself is no problem. Ghost of Cot Death, I didn't know what a Cot Death is, I did know what SIDS is, but say your name is "Dead Baby" or "Dead Kid" or "Dead Dog" seriously do those deserve bans? People may be offended by any of those, but that's stuff an adult (or 14-year-old) should be able to deal with and not cry to the game police over. As far as I'm concerned, if you can say it on a TV show with a TV-14 rating it should be fine in the game, since the game is rated 14+. See anything violating that TV-14 standard of public decency, yeah, report it, they deserve it.

The problem is that whether you're a jerk or not is - you guessed it - totally subjective. People rage at stand-up comics all the time. People rage at others that state ugly truths. Depending on your interpretation (and how far up your ass you have that stick jammed), something may or may not be offensive, and someone may or may not be a jerk. If I make a joke about someone else's misfortune, am I being a jerk, or just trying to be funny? Everyone is going to see it differently, no doubt about it.

Why is swearing inappropriate? Especially when there's a built-in censor? I don't find it inappropriate, and generally no amount of swearing will offend me. I might think a sentence full of swear words is stupid and hard to read, but certainly not offensive. But surely, other people disagree.

I'm just outlining a fundamental problem with trying to police decency - and why I think Anet should just forget about it and stick to real offenses like botting. At least in games you can block people or turn off chat channels - if someone gets in your face in real life, you don't have that many easy options (granted, beating the snot of someone is probably more satisfying than putting them on your ignore list, but fighting has its own ramifications :P).

Productivity · Sep 29, 2007, 03:49 AM // 03:49

I think the report function is a great step forwards for improving the quality of RA. I and a friend have been sync joining and reporting anyone who runs builds that suck. So far RA has been temporarily releived of over twenty E/D tanks that suck. I only hope that others follow this example in cleaning up RA. Edit: Just killed some symbolic strike tards.

Fril Estelin · Sep 29, 2007, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

stick to real offenses like botting.

If you continue your point with your own message, total subjectivity then dictates that botting is not an offense to botters. It boils down to the EULA and Anet can state whatever it wants in the EULA, including a certain moral code.

Trying to educate people via a name such as "cots death" is uterly ridiculous and absolutely disrespectful. And to quote the guy:

Quote:

There are some things in life that you won't like, that you might truly hate... but they're just part of life, and getting them removed for you only makes you weaker.

Yep, respecting people is also part of life.

bhavv · Sep 29, 2007, 04:04 AM // 04:04

People will report you if they dont like you, dont like your skill bar, or think your a noob and playing badly.

They will report all these under 'Leeching'.

They will continue to report everyone they dont like in this way and then get themselves banned for misusing the system.

Isnt that a good thing? I really want to see some serious bannage going out for misusing the report for leeching.

leprekan · Sep 29, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

People will report you if they dont like you, dont like your skill bar, or think your a noob and playing badly.

They will report all these under 'Leeching'.

They will continue to report everyone they dont like in this way and then get themselves banned for misusing the system.

Isnt that a good thing? I really want to see some serious bannage going out for misusing the report for leeching.

Aren't you the guy from another thread that kept getting reported because you were taking builds into RA that you KNEW would fail? Just to spoil other peoples fun. Your mentality is why this report feature even came about. Never have and never will understand people that enjoy trying to screw things up for others.

bhavv · Sep 29, 2007, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Aren't you the guy from another thread that kept getting reported because you were taking builds into RA that you KNEW would fail? Just to spoil other peoples fun. Your mentality is why this report feature even came about. Never have and never will understand people that enjoy trying to screw things up for others.

Dude, mending wammo fails, Geo tank fails, normal 55hp monk fails.

Lots of people play these builds on purpose ok? Excuse us for having fun.

People screwing up RA is WHY we should be allowed to rage quit. Get it? Obviously not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Unless they were actually doing something wrong, they have nothing to worry about.

Is playing my gimmick builds doing anything wrong?